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Thread: Tiebreaking procedure for 2052 on

  1. #1
    FOBL Board of Governors Hollywood's Avatar
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    Default Tiebreaking procedure for 2052 on

    Since OOTP can easily break ties for seeding purposes now, we should codify how we break the ties.

    Let's find out what people think the primary tiebreaker should be. Then we can figure out the 2nd and 3rd tiebreaker.

    I think the best tiebreaker for 2-way tiebreakers is head-to-head. For multi-way tiebreakers, we could use it as well, but I'm not sure the best way.

    A good secondary tiebreaker is pythag record.

    While division record and league record could be used, I don't think those are easily available in-game. Maybe in StatsLab?

    Other ideas?

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    FOFL Commissioner cuervo72's Avatar
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    HTH sounds good to me.


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    Beloved Former Owner DukeRulesMAB's Avatar
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    First, we should codify the standard financial procedure of dividing up the money for unbroken ties (which I think is clearly the best way to handle things such as a MIL/CAP tie and the HOL/TRI tie).

    Second, if we're doing this, we need to codify the "fixing" of seeding that OOTP screws up as the playoffs go along.

    Finally, my vote is 1. H2H, 2. Division Record, 3. Conference Record (and those are easily gettable from the head-to-head records), 4. Coin Flip. However, as long as we do the first two things on the list, I'm fine with whatever everyone else is good with.


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    Beloved Former Owner DukeRulesMAB's Avatar
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    First, we should codify the standard financial procedure of dividing up the money for unbroken ties (which I think is clearly the best way to handle things such as a MIL/CAP tie and the HOL/TRI tie).

    Second, if we're doing this, we need to codify the "fixing" of seeding that OOTP screws up as the playoffs go along.

    Finally, my vote is 1. H2H, 2. Division Record, 3. Conference Record (and those are easily gettable from the head-to-head records), 4. Coin Flip. However, as long as we do the first two things on the list, I'm fine with whatever everyone else is good with.


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    FOBL Owner/GM Scarecrow's Avatar
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    I'd rather use something like Runs Allowed or Runs +/- over pythag as a secondary tiebreaker.

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    Beloved Former Owner TRO's Avatar
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    FOBL Owner/GM Buddy Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cuervo72 View Post
    HTH sounds good to me.
    I like Head to Head as the primary tie breaker too. I also agree a good secondary tiebreaker is pythag record.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy Grant View Post
    I like Head to Head as the primary tie breaker too. I also agree a good secondary tiebreaker is pythag record.
    I don't like pythag record being used for any tiebreaker. I'd rather it come down to something the team accomplished -- HtH, runs scored, runs allowed, div record, etc. -- than rely upon a sabermetric formula of what you should've accomplished. It's hypothetical stat geekery (which I love) but not actual real fake baseball results.

  11. #11
    FOBL Owner/GM Buddy Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimedrice View Post
    I don't like pythag record being used for any tiebreaker. I'd rather it come down to something the team accomplished -- HtH, runs scored, runs allowed, div record, etc. -- than rely upon a sabermetric formula of what you should've accomplished. It's hypothetical stat geekery (which I love) but not actual real fake baseball results.
    The pyth record is based on runs scored & runs allowed so it is something the team accomplished. Plus, it looks like you like the "runs scored, runs allowed" stats anyway:-).

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    FOBL Owner/GM jimedrice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy Grant View Post
    The pyth record is based on runs scored & runs allowed so it is something the team accomplished. Plus, it looks like you like the "runs scored, runs allowed" stats anyway:-).
    yea but why run the formula... I'd prefer the raw numbers with none of that fancy math with an exponent tossed in.

    And why penalize a team for performing better than their pythag vs. one who performed worse. Wouldn't you say the team that performed worse -- with the negative pythag differential -- deserves to stay at home? They couldn't put it together & they choked a bunch of games. Let them stay home and the overachievers advance.

  13. #13
    FOBL Owner/GM Buddy Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimedrice View Post
    yea but why run the formula...
    Because pyth record accounts for both runs scored & runs allowed. Since head to head records will often be tied the secondary tiebreaker is important, and accounting for a combined runs scored & runs allowed count is more fair than choosing just one category due to park effects*.

    * = By park effects I mean "hitters parks = more runs scored, pitchers parks = fewer runs allowed".

    Regarding penalizing poor or good pyth teams, I think any penalty for a poor pyth record or reward for a good pyth record has already been accounted for with the final W-L standings.

    Just my $0.02 of course.

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    FOFL Commissioner cuervo72's Avatar
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    Yeah, I don't see a problem with pythag. Run differential might be tempting, but I think that would favor teams that play in bandboxes (the ratio of RS/RA may be the same, but with elevated runs come larger gaps).

    I'd go something like HTH, divisional record, intraleague record, pythag.

    (essentially what Duke says, but inserting pythag before a coin flip)


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    (Or Dark Cloud. Whichever works.) Young Drachma's Avatar
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    Absolutely not pythag. Head to head, then use division record, then use record against other division. Then just make them play out the game in OOTP if it's really important and you can have the simmer do it immediately at the end of the regular season, it just requires adding one more game.

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    Beloved Former Owner TRO's Avatar
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    FOBL Board of Governors Morgado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DukeRulesMAB View Post
    Finally, my vote is 1. H2H, 2. Division Record, 3. Conference Record (and those are easily gettable from the head-to-head records), 4. Coin Flip. However, as long as we do the first two things on the list, I'm fine with whatever everyone else is good with.
    I hereby delegate Duke to be my proxy in this entire discussion.

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    FOBL Board of Governors CubsFan915's Avatar
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    OK, so it seems like HTH as the first tiebreaker has pretty strong support. Seems like division record is currently the leader for tiebreak number 2.

    Is there enough dissent on either of these to make it worth doing a poll, or is the 3rd tiebreaker where things start getting interesting?
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    FOBL Board of Governors wolvie109's Avatar
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    I'm pretty much agree with Duke, except I'd rather do shared monies as the last tie breaker rather than coin flip. I mean if the teams are THAT even then why not share in the dough. I'd be pretty pissed if it came down to losing a coin flip. I'd vote for

    1. HTH
    2. League Record
    3. Division Record
    4. Shared Pot

  20. #20
    Beloved Former Owner DukeRulesMAB's Avatar
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    To be clear, I would use the tiebreakers only for playoff seeding. I still think the money should be split regardless unless it is a 4th/5th place situation where the teams actually play off.


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    FOFL Commissioner cuervo72's Avatar
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    Yes - in no way would I advocate for this to be used for splitting monies.


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  22. #22
    FOBL Board of Governors CubsFan915's Avatar
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    Concur with Duke and C. This is also only for seeding, in my view.
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  23. #23
    FOBL Board of Governors wolvie109's Avatar
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    ahhh oops

  24. #24
    FOBL Board of Governors CubsFan915's Avatar
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    Question: should we only have a tiebreak game for the 4th seed, or should we be playing tiebreak games for the other places as well?
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  25. #25
    FOBL Board of Governors Hollywood's Avatar
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    Games only for the 4th.

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