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Thread: Minor League age limits

  1. #1
    FOBL Board of Governors Hollywood's Avatar
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    Default Minor League age limits

    OOTP15 allows us to set maximum age limits for each level of minor leagues. We already have an age limit for Rookie Ball, so this will be helpful in administration (except for the fact that some new draftees will be over the 21-year-old age limit... not sure how we fix that).

    Do we want to go further and set age limits for A and AA ball?

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    Beloved Former Owner DukeRulesMAB's Avatar
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    My opinion remains the same as it has when brought up in the past; there does not appear to be any advantage to slow-rolling prospects, do I don't see a reason for the rule.

    I'd rather have a roster limit for each minor league level (25 men), and just let the age stuff be to each owner to determine.


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  3. #3
    FOBL Board of Governors CubsFan915's Avatar
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    I think we need to either get rid of age restrictions entirely or make it easier to enforce. Set it to 22 years old for R ball and forget it.
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    Beloved Former Owner TRO's Avatar
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    I wouldn't mind us going to age limits for all levels: 22, 25, 28 and no limit in AAA. Gam enforced.

    Otherwise, I would be in favor of stripping the age limits entirely.

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    FOBL Owner/GM frozenrope's Avatar
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    I like the idea of age limits on all 3 levels. Knowing that it would be more administrative stuff; good either way, though.


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  6. #6
    FOBL Owner/GM Buddy Grant's Avatar
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    Before we get ahead of ourselves: Does anyone have OOTP15 to test whether that age limit feature actually works?

  7. #7
    FOBL Board of Governors Hollywood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy Grant View Post
    Before we get ahead of ourselves: Does anyone have OOTP15 to test whether that age limit feature actually works?
    I do. I'll check after the patch tomorrow.

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    FOBL Board of Governors Draft Dodger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy Grant View Post
    Before we get ahead of ourselves: Does anyone have OOTP15 to test whether that age limit feature actually works?
    even before we do that, perhaps someone can explain WHY we need age limits?

  9. #9
    FOxL Voyeur Huckleberry's Avatar
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    I skimmed the constitution again, but what in the rules prevents a team from stashing a prospect in their minors indefinitely without any other team having a chance at signing him and promoting him? Basically the mechanism that would prevent a team from having the three best catchers in the game and stashing one in the minors with no intention of ever promoting him.

    I know it's a long shot and an extreme hypothetical, but I don't see anything about a Rule 5 draft, so might minor league age and roster limits serve a similar function? But then again without a limit at AAA, which would be a terrible idea, even that wouldn't really work.

    Other than that I don't see a huge reason for age limits. It would take a very weird situation for enough teams to have players too old for a level on their rosters so that a few teams' younger guys see a development impact.

  10. #10
    Beloved Former Owner TRO's Avatar
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    The argument is as Huckleberry alluded to - potential negative development impact by rookies that can't compete against the older competition. Supposedly, Markus has stated that performance does not correlate to development. If so, the point is completely moot.

    If we're not going to trust the FAC engineer though, we would want some protection for the young players.

    My suggested age limits are to give some protection to the low levels without forcing large bottlenecks. I think our current rule creates a bottleneck in A ball.

    Regarding AAA, there shouldn't be an age limit here. You need someplace to put cheap backup options in case of injury and a place to stash the coppaged albatross contract that you are trying to retire.

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    FOFL Commissioner cuervo72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huckleberry View Post
    I skimmed the constitution again, but what in the rules prevents a team from stashing a prospect in their minors indefinitely without any other team having a chance at signing him and promoting him? Basically the mechanism that would prevent a team from having the three best catchers in the game and stashing one in the minors with no intention of ever promoting him.
    Eh, owners would be pretty good about dealing redundant talent. Or at least they should be if they are paying any attention. There are times when players are stashed temporarily (see: Travis Keys*) and that sucks from a realism/player/history standpoint, but that's up to the owner.


    * if anything, we could investigate rules that say once a guy is on a major-league contract, he stays that way and the clock is ticking on his 5 100k years. That might be a tough sell though.


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    FOBL Owner/GM Doc P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cuervo72 View Post

    * if anything, we could investigate rules that say once a guy is on a major-league contract, he stays that way and the clock is ticking on his 5 100k years. That might be a tough sell though.
    Better be a pretty good salesman. I know I wouldn't be buying that one.


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  13. #13
    FOBL Board of Governors Hollywood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cuervo72 View Post
    * if anything, we could investigate rules that say once a guy is on a major-league contract, he stays that way and the clock is ticking on his 5 100k years. That might be a tough sell though.
    I am so for that.

  14. #14
    FOBL Board of Governors CubsFan915's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc P View Post
    Better be a pretty good salesman. I know I wouldn't be buying that one.
    Ditto. My preference may be the best evidence in FAVOR of that rule, though.
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    (Or Dark Cloud. Whichever works.) Young Drachma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huckleberry View Post
    I skimmed the constitution again, but what in the rules prevents a team from stashing a prospect in their minors indefinitely without any other team having a chance at signing him and promoting him? Basically the mechanism that would prevent a team from having the three best catchers in the game and stashing one in the minors with no intention of ever promoting him.

    I know it's a long shot and an extreme hypothetical, but I don't see anything about a Rule 5 draft, so might minor league age and roster limits serve a similar function? But then again without a limit at AAA, which would be a terrible idea, even that wouldn't really work.

    Other than that I don't see a huge reason for age limits. It would take a very weird situation for enough teams to have players too old for a level on their rosters so that a few teams' younger guys see a development impact.
    OOTP has a rule 5 draft in-game fwiw that could be activated if we wanted to. Otherwise...OOTP doesnt' provide any incentives for stashing prospects of a certain age forever. And FOBL isn't full of nitwits who would stash a prospect at the risk of getting NOTHING for him before he stops sucking.

    Players stop developing after 25 years old for the most part, so it doesn't matter. And there's no negative "impact" on older guys in lower levels hurting players development because the games are a farce and don't really impact development at all, the player development is independent of it, if you turned off games and had no mnors, there would still be development because that's how OOTP works.

    Age rule is just administrative headache. And the age thing in OOTP doesn't work, unless Markus fixed it. All it does is make sure the game doesn't generate any players of that age or old for that level. It might prevent auto organize from putting those guys on those levels too, but I haven't tested it with 15 yet.
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    Beloved Former Owner TRO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Young Drachma View Post
    ?.. And there's no negative "impact" on older guys in lower levels hurting players development because the games are a farce and don't really impact development at all, the player development is independent of it, if you turned off games and had no mnors, there would still be development because that's how OOTP works.
    .
    I still don't know about the part about older players not hurting development of younger players.

    From the manual:
    "Challenge- Players respond differently to challenges. Often, a player who is tearing up Double A hitting might not be developing very quickly, because he isn't being challenged. Similarly, putting an overmatched rookie into your major league starting lineup could actually hurt his development."

    If players are being overmatched because they are facing too much older competition, I think it can hurt development.

    As as for the point that you can turn off the minors and still get development, that is an entirely different structure. OOTP allows development on reserve rosters even without playing time.

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  17. #17
    FOBL Board of Governors Draft Dodger's Avatar
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    even if true, older does not necessarily mean better.

  18. #18
    (Or Dark Cloud. Whichever works.) Young Drachma's Avatar
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    I've been in beta a long time. No one has ever presented this as an issue. I don't think the game is as sophisticated as you all think it is. If it were a thing, I'm almost certain that they'd fix it because it'd be a damn bug.
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    FOBL Owner/GM Ryan S's Avatar
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    Are we going to do anything about minor league age limits? I would be inclined to get rid of them completely.
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  20. #20
    FOBL Board of Governors Draft Dodger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan S View Post
    Are we going to do anything about minor league age limits? I would be inclined to get rid of them completely.
    seconded

  21. #21
    Beloved Former Owner TRO's Avatar
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    I'd vote for Eliminating them or instituting limits at all levels. I hate the age limit at only the Rookie ball level.

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  22. #22
    FOBL Owner/GM Ryan S's Avatar
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    If we must have age limits, I would like to set the limits in OOTP so we can automanage the minor leagues.
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  23. #23
    FOBL Board of Governors CubsFan915's Avatar
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    If someone wants to put a proposal together, I'd be all for putting it up for a vote.
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  24. #24
    FOBL Board of Governors Morgado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CubsFan915 View Post
    If someone wants to put a proposal together...
    My proposal is the same as the one that failed to ratify by a vote of 18-11:



    Article I, Section B in the Shawstitution is changed from:

    Quote Originally Posted by Current Shawstitution
    B. Each team shall have four minor league organizations (AAA, AA, A, Rookie).

    1. Players on an organization's Rookie League team may not be older than 20 years of age as of Opening Day of that season, OR must be in his first professional season.
    To the following:

    Quote Originally Posted by Changes to Shawstitution
    B. Each team shall have four three minor league organizations (AAA, AA, A, Rookie).

    1. Players on an organization's Rookie League team may not be older than 20 years of age as of Opening Day of that season, OR must be in his first professional season.
    And will end up simply reading:

    Quote Originally Posted by YOU KNOW YOU LIKE IT
    B. Each team shall have three minor league organizations (AAA, AA, A).

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  25. #25
    FOFL Commissioner cuervo72's Avatar
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    Man, I like having a rookie team for guys who still have some hope, rather than the crapholes I have at single-A.

    (Also, my R team has a cool star logo and has won a couple titles.)


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