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Thread: Talent Change Randomness change

  1. #26
    FOBL Owner/GM Doc P's Avatar
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    I don't think there's any situation in this game that would be improved by having less information.


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  2. #27
    FOBL Board of Governors Morgado's Avatar
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    I'm agree with Buddy and Doc.

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  3. #28
    FOBL Owner/GM Buddy Grant's Avatar
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    Update: This is possibly obvious to everyone else but I just noticed this now, and it's related to the info below about dev display changes in OOTP13. Our dev change script will not mention dev talent drops unless they are below the 'current' rating.

    Example 1: If your player has ratings/talent levels of 9/9-9/9-9/9 and his talents drop to 9/6-9/6-9/6, these talent drop changes will not be listed on the players dev page.

    Example 2: If your player has ratings/talent levels of 7/9-7/9-7/9 and his talents drop to 7/6-7/6-7/6, the players dev page will only mention his talents dropping to 7.

    This is useful to keep in mind if we ever use the dev pages to track positive/negative dev % - lots of the negative dev is not going to be reported at all. Also, if you are only using the dev change pages to track how your players are doing, you might end up being surprised at how poor some players talents are when you look at their actual player page. Sometimes you can get an idea of how far they have fallen by checking the player history "OSA scouting updated ratings" notes, but those only record ratings & talents every January 1st (game date).

    Here's an example with an FOBL player:
    1B Hector Romain Dev History (Looks great - only one negative dev hit since he was drafted in 2042).

    1B Hector Romain player page (Note the past OSA scouting updated ratings in the player history of Contact: 6 (8); Power: 4 (8); Eye: 5 (8). This players gap talent was (8) as well, so this player has had five unreported talent dev hits so far).


    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy Grant View Post
    Perhaps this has been discussed already, but in case it has not this is worth bringing up for any dev related discussion: There was a new 'feature' in OOTP13 that allows the display of lower talent ratings when a players talent was less than his current ratings. I don't believe the OOTP dev engine changed (except for no injury related dev hits), I think this was simply a display option change. Anyway, dev change utilities would not have noticed the new wave of negative dev we can see today, but now we know there is a whole lot more bad OOTP dev for younger players than we previously realized.

    Here is an extreme example of this new game display feature:
    http://www.thefobl.com/news/html/pla...yer_13069.html

    In this example the current ratings have dropped too, but they are still pretty high and may or may not drop quickly. The ratings drop speed varies from player to player. Some players seem to be able to hang around for a few seasons, maybe even longer, before having completely gutted current ratings. Other players have their current ratings drop within a few weeks.

    In past versions of OOTP we would have seen the current ratings drop first for a player like this, so he would have been a player with current ratings/talent of 8/8-8/8-8/8 instead of OOTP13's 8/6-8/6-8/4. That's how the dev utilities would have reported the changes as well.

    You might not see examples quite as extreme as this on your team, but I'm sure there will still be many examples of this new display logic for players on every FOBL team, and it is especially noticeable for younger players. Note that positive dev for 17-25 year olds would not be impacted by this OOTP13 display change, since OOTP has always displayed higher talent ratings. Again, this means there is a whole lot more negative OOTP dev applied to young players than we previously knew about, and as a result I'd recommend we keep our rookie generation modifiers high for the rookie draft, and probably refrain from increasing the talent randomness.

  4. #29
    FOFL Commissioner cuervo72's Avatar
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    I've noticed that for a while, and haven't been able to figure out why that is. I thought the dev tool was going right off of the talent values in the csv, which I would think would link up with the talents shown in the html.

    Looking in our db - which is populated straight from the csv - Wally Gingrich is showing a batting_ratings_talent_contact value of 59. That would line up with what the html says is his talent rating of 3. So what is OOTPU grabbing? This is what I've never quite understood, and still has me scratching my head. Or is the tool coded to intentionally hide these based on the existence of that OOTP setting?


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  5. #30
    FOBL Owner/GM Buddy Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cuervo72 View Post
    I've noticed that for a while, and haven't been able to figure out why that is. I thought the dev tool was going right off of the talent values in the csv, which I would think would link up with the talents shown in the html.

    Looking in our db - which is populated straight from the csv - Wally Gingrich is showing a batting_ratings_talent_contact value of 59. That would line up with what the html says is his talent rating of 3. So what is OOTPU grabbing? This is what I've never quite understood, and still has me scratching my head. Or is the tool coded to intentionally hide these based on the existence of that OOTP setting?
    My only guess is the various OOTP dev utilities were designed for earlier versions of OOTP where Talent did not drop below current ratings. It's not really a huge deal, but it does mean there is potentially a lot of bad dev we can easily miss if we are not familiar with all our players talent levels. It's also noteworthy for RFA and trade scouting - don't depend on the player dev page to show you a completely accurate dev history for all players. We should also check the 'OSA scouting updated ratings' in the player history to see the talent dev hits that will not show up on the player dev page.

    Some more related thoughts:
    - I used to think the negative-to-positive dev split in OOTP was around 60-40, but it looks like it could be a fair amount higher.
    - I've highlighted some of my own players in my examples, and I have several others like this as well (no dev hits shown on dev pages, but talent drops of 1-2 in several categories). That said, I'm assuming this is happening in varying degrees to all FOBL teams.
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