View Poll Results: What playoff format will we use next season? FINAL VOTE

Voters
32. You may not vote on this poll
  • 6 teams from each league, mandating the use of BYEs

    18 56.25%
  • 8 teams from each league, as we do now

    14 43.75%
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 104

Thread: Discussion - new playoff format - poll #3

  1. #26
    FOFL Commissioner cuervo72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Frederick, MD
    Posts
    22,968

    Default

    Pretty much.


    Blue, blue, the sky is blue, the grass is green and your heart is true,
    You got more colors than I ever seen, pink, red, yellow and in between.

  2. #27
    FOBL Board of Governors Hollywood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    22,861

    Default

    Yep.

    Any of you "8 team" voters willing to jump ship and go along with the rest?

  3. #28
    FOBL Owner/GM clintl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    5,951

    Default

    Not me. I still think a bye is a horrible idea, and would result in something much worse than what we have now. I'd be fine with going down to 4 teams, but I don't think what we have now is that awful.
    FOBL Santa Cruz Sea Lions
    2008 Solecismic Series Champions
    2008, 2030 Gindin League Champions
    2008, 2012, 2016 Dola Division Champions
    2041 DEFCON Division Champions
    2009, 2019, 2029, 2030 Gindin League Wild Card

    FOFL Davis Toads
    2033, 2034 NC Conference Champions
    2012, 2019, 2023, 2031, 2033, 2034 NC West Champions
    2004, 2005, 2006, 2035, 2038 NC Wild Card

  4. #29
    FOBL Owner/GM Scarecrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    1,462

    Default

    I'm sticking with my 8 team vote.

  5. #30
    FOBL Board of Governors CubsFan915's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    16,505

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by frozenrope View Post
    I'm a little uncertain why this has to get a 2/3 vote, when the change to the 8 teams per league didn't need a 2/3 vote to pass. Granted, it DID get the 2/3 vote, but only when pitted against a 4 teams per league, which nobody wanted (This was part of the "contraction and get the league re-charged again" series of votes). 6 teams wasn't an option in the vote because it wasn't an option in OOTP11. Now that it is in OOTP13, I think a simple majority should be sufficient when both options are presented.
    Precedent is that everything in the Constitution needs 2/3, whether it's an amendment due to a change in OOTP functionality, or otherwise. (E.G. Rookie League.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
    Yep.

    Any of you "8 team" voters willing to jump ship and go along with the rest?
    Not me. I don't trust the FAC not to screw with the team getting the bye.
    Richmond Confederates

    Gindin League Wild Card 2008, 2018, 2028
    Prairie Division Champion 2009
    Gindin League Champion 2028
    Vaughan League Division Semi-Finalist 2036, 2037, 2038, 2048, 2052, 2053, 2054, 2055, 2056
    Skates Division Regular Season Champion 2057
    Skates Division Playoff Champion 2057
    Gindin League Division Semi-Finalist 2058

  6. #31
    FOBL Owner/GM frozenrope's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Aurora, Illinois
    Posts
    8,904

    Default

    I'm gonna end up losing this argument (I seem to frequently), but in my humble opinion, the 4th place team in the division, the 8th place team in the league, and the 16th place team in FOBL should never, never, never, never, never, never, never be allowed to win the SS. Ever. Ever. Ever. I don't care if it's my team or whomever's team. It dillutes the entire season when you can go 79-83, finish 4th, 20 games out of first, then have the FAC get a couple of hot pitchers and win the thing. If we're going to get more teams into the tournament, then the advantage should always go to the team with the best record.

    I know that the test league people will say that the WC teams that win the bye will have better chances to win. Better than we have now? Go back and look how many WC teams have already won (myself included). WC teams are always going to win, so let's limit it just a little bit. I'm cool with 12 teams out of 32 getting in, just like the NFL. But 16 in a sport (and FAC) where it's a crap shoot as to who wins is a shitty playoff system, and I will vote to change it at every opportunity.


    'Tragedy is when I stub my toe. Comedy is when you fall down a manhole and die." - Mel Brooks

    "Prophet Harold Camping who predicted the end of the world has died. That's kinda sad but its not the end of the world" -
    Eric Idle

  7. #32
    FOBL Owner/GM clintl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    5,951

    Default

    Like I said, I would have been fine with 4, like we originally had. I'm not fine with a bye.
    FOBL Santa Cruz Sea Lions
    2008 Solecismic Series Champions
    2008, 2030 Gindin League Champions
    2008, 2012, 2016 Dola Division Champions
    2041 DEFCON Division Champions
    2009, 2019, 2029, 2030 Gindin League Wild Card

    FOFL Davis Toads
    2033, 2034 NC Conference Champions
    2012, 2019, 2023, 2031, 2033, 2034 NC West Champions
    2004, 2005, 2006, 2035, 2038 NC Wild Card

  8. #33
    FOBL Owner/GM Doc P's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    2,340

    Default

    I think it'd be worthwhile putting 4 qualifiers from each league in as a choice (head-to-head vs 8 qualifiers).

    4-team structure may gain support from both sides now. Consider:

    - Those staunchly in favor of a smaller playoff structure may vote for this now if they know the 6-team thing won't pass.
    - Those voting for 8 only because it avoids a bye, but who may still want a smaller playoffs may vote for it.
    - Those wanting realism may vote for this, as it more closely resembles actual MLB.

    You could even still throw cash at the top 8 records in each league, even if they didn't all qualify for the playoffs, just to make more people happy.


    Solecismic Series Champions - 2044, 2047, 2048, 2050, 2053, 2058, 2059
    Vaughan League Champions - 2044,2047,2048,2050,2051,2052,2053,2054,2058,2059
    Ice Cream Sandwich Division Champions - 2043,2044,2045,2046,2047,2049,2050,2051,2052,2054, 2055,2056,2058,2059,2060,2061
    Vaughan League Manager of the Year - 2043, 2044, 2048, 2050

  9. #34
    FOBL Owner/GM Ryan S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    1,736

    Default

    I am not voting for any system that has a bye.
    Las Vegas Sucks!!!!

  10. #35
    FOBL Owner/GM clintl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    5,951

    Default

    I think Doc's idea is a good one.
    FOBL Santa Cruz Sea Lions
    2008 Solecismic Series Champions
    2008, 2030 Gindin League Champions
    2008, 2012, 2016 Dola Division Champions
    2041 DEFCON Division Champions
    2009, 2019, 2029, 2030 Gindin League Wild Card

    FOFL Davis Toads
    2033, 2034 NC Conference Champions
    2012, 2019, 2023, 2031, 2033, 2034 NC West Champions
    2004, 2005, 2006, 2035, 2038 NC Wild Card

  11. #36
    FOBL Board of Governors Hollywood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    22,861

    Default

    4 is too few, IMO. I thought 6 was a perfect compromise.

  12. #37
    FOBL Board of Governors Hollywood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    22,861

    Default

    Maybe 5? Like MLB, we could have the 4 play the 5 in a 3-game series or something?

  13. #38
    FOBL Owner/GM clintl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    5,951

    Default

    Why is 4 too few? We had 4 for something like 36 seasons, and no one complained that I can remember.

    Again, I won't vote for any system that has a bye. It's a complete deal-breaker for me. I think MLB is making a mistake, and its bye is just going to be 1 game.
    FOBL Santa Cruz Sea Lions
    2008 Solecismic Series Champions
    2008, 2030 Gindin League Champions
    2008, 2012, 2016 Dola Division Champions
    2041 DEFCON Division Champions
    2009, 2019, 2029, 2030 Gindin League Wild Card

    FOFL Davis Toads
    2033, 2034 NC Conference Champions
    2012, 2019, 2023, 2031, 2033, 2034 NC West Champions
    2004, 2005, 2006, 2035, 2038 NC Wild Card

  14. #39
    FOBL Board of Governors Hollywood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    22,861

    Default

    The reason we went away from 4 is precisely because of complaining and a lack of interest by 3/4 of the league after the AS break. We wanted to keep more teams fighting to win.

  15. #40
    FOBL Owner/GM clintl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    5,951

    Default

    OK, then. Maybe it's time for the pro-bye people to listen to the bad experience another league has had with a bye, and live with 8 playoff teams. The bye will not accomplish what it is intended to accomplish.

    If we're going to stick with 8 playoff teams, here's a change I would support. Reduce the automatic bids for each division to 1 or 2, and let the rest of the playoff teams be determined by record.
    FOBL Santa Cruz Sea Lions
    2008 Solecismic Series Champions
    2008, 2030 Gindin League Champions
    2008, 2012, 2016 Dola Division Champions
    2041 DEFCON Division Champions
    2009, 2019, 2029, 2030 Gindin League Wild Card

    FOFL Davis Toads
    2033, 2034 NC Conference Champions
    2012, 2019, 2023, 2031, 2033, 2034 NC West Champions
    2004, 2005, 2006, 2035, 2038 NC Wild Card

  16. #41
    FOFL Commissioner cuervo72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Frederick, MD
    Posts
    22,968

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by clintl View Post
    OK, then. Maybe it's time for the pro-bye people to listen to the bad experience another league has had with a bye, and live with 8 playoff teams. The bye will not accomplish what it is intended to accomplish.
    Well, as I think rope points out, it will in some aspect. You won't ever have a 4th place team making it to the second round. Because they won't ever be in the playoffs.

    Given the choice of what happened this season or risking rust in a second round, I think digamma would have picked risking rust for ORO. Though I guess that isn't the case all of the time, considering you were the 1st place team that was snakebit by 82-80 NRW just last season.

    If you're of the opinion that a bye situation is "much worse" than what we have now, on what basis is that? Because it is too much of a free pass for a 1st place team, or because it unfairly hurts them? (seems like the latter, but I just want to make sure).

    I've bumped a thread at OOTP to see if there are any other opinions on byes. Can't guarantee we'll get any meaningful input, but I figured I'd try.

    http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...-bye-week.html


    Blue, blue, the sky is blue, the grass is green and your heart is true,
    You got more colors than I ever seen, pink, red, yellow and in between.

  17. #42
    FOFL Commissioner cuervo72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Frederick, MD
    Posts
    22,968

    Default

    Oh, and have we actually tested this over a large number of seasons (DC?) Like, fire up a 100 season test and compare the two, at the very least just to see what % of 1st place teams get to the League Championship in each setup. That's really what we're worried about, I think - that the 1st place team doesn't have rust in that first series. Compare that vs upsets that just happen naturally:

    Divisional Championship Columbus over Indianapolis, 4-2


    Blue, blue, the sky is blue, the grass is green and your heart is true,
    You got more colors than I ever seen, pink, red, yellow and in between.

  18. #43
    FOBL Owner/GM clintl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    5,951

    Default

    If we went with 6, I could live with this suggestion by Dark Cloud from the other thread.

    Just for the record, byes in OOTP will likely piss you all off. I've been using the format for a while and I've noticed ancedotally that wild card teams almost always manage to triumph against those teams that had to sit.

    I think the best way to do it would be to go with Top 6 in each league and make the elim games to get in one-game sudden death.
    Perhaps even a 3-game series. But nothing longer than that while the team with a bye sits.

    I still really don't understand why nobody is listening to DC's experience on this.
    FOBL Santa Cruz Sea Lions
    2008 Solecismic Series Champions
    2008, 2030 Gindin League Champions
    2008, 2012, 2016 Dola Division Champions
    2041 DEFCON Division Champions
    2009, 2019, 2029, 2030 Gindin League Wild Card

    FOFL Davis Toads
    2033, 2034 NC Conference Champions
    2012, 2019, 2023, 2031, 2033, 2034 NC West Champions
    2004, 2005, 2006, 2035, 2038 NC Wild Card

  19. #44
    FOBL Owner/GM clintl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    5,951

    Default

    An idea - how customizable is the playoff structure in OOTP13? For example, is a round-robin tournament possible?
    FOBL Santa Cruz Sea Lions
    2008 Solecismic Series Champions
    2008, 2030 Gindin League Champions
    2008, 2012, 2016 Dola Division Champions
    2041 DEFCON Division Champions
    2009, 2019, 2029, 2030 Gindin League Wild Card

    FOFL Davis Toads
    2033, 2034 NC Conference Champions
    2012, 2019, 2023, 2031, 2033, 2034 NC West Champions
    2004, 2005, 2006, 2035, 2038 NC Wild Card

  20. #45
    FOBL Board of Governors Hollywood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    22,861

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by clintl View Post
    I still really don't understand why nobody is listening to DC's experience on this.
    Because it's anecdotal? And because we've been having major upsets all the time in our current format?

  21. #46
    FOBL Owner/GM frozenrope's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Aurora, Illinois
    Posts
    8,904

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
    Because it's anecdotal? And because we've been having major upsets all the time in our current format?
    +1

    Even if the upsets continue to happen all the time, what this will accomplish is it won't ever be done by the 4th place team, like Cuervo said. Ever.


    'Tragedy is when I stub my toe. Comedy is when you fall down a manhole and die." - Mel Brooks

    "Prophet Harold Camping who predicted the end of the world has died. That's kinda sad but its not the end of the world" -
    Eric Idle

  22. #47
    FOBL Owner/GM clintl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    5,951

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
    Because it's anecdotal? And because we've been having major upsets all the time in our current format?
    6 of the 8 higher seeds won in the first round this season.
    FOBL Santa Cruz Sea Lions
    2008 Solecismic Series Champions
    2008, 2030 Gindin League Champions
    2008, 2012, 2016 Dola Division Champions
    2041 DEFCON Division Champions
    2009, 2019, 2029, 2030 Gindin League Wild Card

    FOFL Davis Toads
    2033, 2034 NC Conference Champions
    2012, 2019, 2023, 2031, 2033, 2034 NC West Champions
    2004, 2005, 2006, 2035, 2038 NC Wild Card

  23. #48
    FOBL Board of Governors Hollywood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    22,861

    Default

    How many #1 seeds have won the Series since we switched formats?

    I was looking at the data a while back in order to write an article about it. Upsets have been more common than not since we changed.

  24. #49
    FOBL Board of Governors Hollywood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    22,861

    Default

    Here is how it played out, seed-wise, in the following years:

    2036

    VL

    ICS1 / ICS3 / F3 / F4
    ICS2 / F1
    ICS4
    F2 (*)

    GL

    D1 / D3 / S2 / S4
    D4 / S3
    D2
    S1


    2037

    VL

    ICS4 / ICS2 / F3 / F1
    ICS1 / F2
    ICS3
    F4 (*)

    GL

    D4 / D2 / S3 / S4
    D3 / S2
    D1
    S1

  25. #50
    FOBL Owner/GM clintl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    5,951

    Default

    Largely because we have twice as many teams in the playoffs. Of course we're going to have more upsets if there are more series.

    Again, I'm not going to vote for a system with a bye unless the first round is very, very short (sudden death or 3 games) without evidence that the bye doesn't harm the bye team's chances in the next round. The burden of proof that it doesn't should rightly be on the proponents of the change, and not on those who are concerned based on the anecdotal evidence (which is a good deal more substantial than none at all).

    If you want some of us to switch votes, come up with the evidence that shows the change will accomplish what you intend.
    FOBL Santa Cruz Sea Lions
    2008 Solecismic Series Champions
    2008, 2030 Gindin League Champions
    2008, 2012, 2016 Dola Division Champions
    2041 DEFCON Division Champions
    2009, 2019, 2029, 2030 Gindin League Wild Card

    FOFL Davis Toads
    2033, 2034 NC Conference Champions
    2012, 2019, 2023, 2031, 2033, 2034 NC West Champions
    2004, 2005, 2006, 2035, 2038 NC Wild Card

Similar Threads

  1. Playoff Predictions
    By PineTar in forum FOBL General Discussion
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 01-06-2003, 06:51 PM
  2. IMPORTANT - Playoff teams, please read
    By DukeRulesMAB in forum FOBL General Discussion
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01-06-2003, 10:37 AM
  3. First playoff file up
    By Malificent in forum FOBL General Discussion
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-06-2003, 09:11 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •