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Thread: Discussion: Removing Rule VII - H (roster restrictions - injuries)

  1. #1
    FOBL Owner/GM Buddy Grant's Avatar
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    Default Discussion: Removing Rule VII - H (roster restrictions - injuries)

    I propose we remove rule VII - H from our constitution's "ROSTER, POSITION AND INDIVIDUAL PLAYER SETTING RESTRICTIONS" section.

    Here is the current rule:
    H. During the regular season, players who are listed as "out with injury" for greater than two weeks do not count toward the 25 active player requirement and must be replaced on the major league roster until they are at most six days away from recovery. This rule does not apply during the playoffs or after rosters expand on September 1. During the playoffs, players who are out with injuries may only be placed on the post-season roster if they will recover from their injuries during the post-season. Those players eligible may not be slotted in a role until the sim in which they will recover. If the injured player is normally a starter, the team must slot an eligible player at his position in the starting lineup.

    Reasons why the rule was put in place:
    1. To avoid any advantage a team might get from having OOTP put a reliever in as a SP.
    2. To avoid any advantage a team might get from having OOTP pitch a better SP on short rest.
    3. To reduce tanking.

    Reasons why we can remove it completely:
    1. We've long since moved to a version of OOTP where there is no restriction on SP/MR/CL usage roles, so the concern about using a reliever as a SP is no longer applicable.
    2. Regarding advantages of using SP's on short rest, we now use a version of OOTP where this is no longer the advantage it was in previous versions. In fact, there now appears to be serious disadvantages to this practice since using a tired pitcher reduces their effectiveness and increases their chance of injury.
    3. We've created new financial rules to avert tanking, along with a dramatic reduction in other old tanking related roster rules like requiring a player to only play a position he is rated at. Again, this was due to changes in OOTP since the original FOBL Constitution were written. IMO that means the tanking concern aspect of this rule is also no longer applicable.

    Besides no longer needing this rule (as argued above) removing the rule also reduces admin work, and would likely contribute positively to the related "FOBL Injury Setting" rule discussion in this thread.

    What do you guys think?

  2. #2
    FOBL Owner/GM frozenrope's Avatar
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    I'm good with this rule. I second that emotion. Well, if you feel like giving me a lifetime of devotion. I second that emotion.


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  3. #3
    FOBL Board of Governors Hollywood's Avatar
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    I thought another reason for adopting this rule was to encourage spending through requiring somebody to be brought up as a replacement. If it was a guy on a MLC, then there goes 100K in salary. Maybe I'm wrong.

    That said, with the salary floor, that reason is gone too.

    I don't have a problem axing this provision.

  4. #4
    FOFL Commissioner cuervo72's Avatar
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    On first glance, I don't have a real objection to this either. I think one concern was having teams like ATL or NRW when they were in their abandoned stages, with 21 viable players that would lead to odd pitching or lineup situations. I think Buddy's right that pitching isn't as much of a concern as overused guys will pay for such usage.

    I think in general it's still beneficial for teams to make these changes (especially with a 14-day DL), but I don't know if it needs to be mandated any longer.


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  5. #5
    FOBL Board of Governors Morgado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cuervo72 View Post
    I think one concern was having teams like ATL or NRW when they were in their abandoned stages, with 21 viable players that would lead to odd pitching or lineup situations.
    I am not familiar with the origins of the rule, but this seems a lot more likely to me than a finances basis for the rule. It is another way to account for gaps in the old OOTP substitution logic and position penalties (which have been presumably addressed a long time ago by Markus).

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  6. #6
    (Or Dark Cloud. Whichever works.) Young Drachma's Avatar
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    Yeah dump it. It's an antiquated rule from a long bygone era of OOTP.
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  7. #7
    FOBL Owner/GM Ryan S's Avatar
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    I have no objection.
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  8. #8
    Beloved Former Owner sporr's Avatar
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    Let's do it

  9. #9
    FOBL Board of Governors Hollywood's Avatar
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    I'll get some voting threads up on issues this offseason, including this one.

  10. #10
    FOBL Board of Governors Morgado's Avatar
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    BTW big ups to Buddy for actually posting a proposed change rather than the usual bish threads we get! Woo!



    Edit: The more I think about it, the more it seems like this was a component that worked with position requirements (which are also largely gone) to prevent really bad AI management during sims. It was like the individual mandate (GET HEALTHY OR DIE) part of the position restrictions package - now that there's no position restrictions package, there's less reason to care about the DL rules. All we really kept was the staff and rotation requirements, which can be useful even separate from the rest of the stuff. I think there were some AI "running out of pitchers" shenaniganz that came out in the early days (see this thread for backstory, particularly Bartling), and forcing players to move injured and unusable players off the roster to replace with usable bodies ensured the AI had sufficient options. Roster requirements that mandated minimum 10 man staffs and position slotting further ensured that, since there would then be not only usable bodies but the appropriate usable bodies on the roster during the sim.

    Buddy's reasons we can remove 1 and 2 are where I think the meat of it is. Especially with rules VII.B and VII.G in the shawstitution that mandate you need to have 10 pitchers and the "improved" pitching substitution, there's much less of a problem, if any at all. Striking VII.H seems like it's fine.
    Last edited by Morgado; 04-04-2012 at 08:55 AM.

    Davenport Falcons - 2043 FOBL Solecismic Series Winners

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  11. #11
    FOBL Board of Governors Hollywood's Avatar
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    Shall we put this up for a vote? Any more discussion?

  12. #12
    FOBL Owner/GM clintl's Avatar
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    Let's vote. I'm for it.
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  13. #13
    FOBL Board of Governors Hollywood's Avatar
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    Barring any further discussion in the next day or so, this will be put to a vote this week.

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